Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Post Painting Wiki

  1. #1

    Post Painting Wiki

    This post will be dedicated to "post" paint preparation, paint restoration & detailing.

    Please add you own experience, terminology, procedures & products, and I will add key info to this first post to make it easy for those searching

    Terminology

    "Flatting" = Sanding down the top layer of paint to a smooth finish

    "Rubbing Down" = As above

    "Zingers" = small dirt particles removed from the paint surface

    "Machine Polishing" = Used to polish the surface of the paint after flatting

    "Mopping" = As above

    "Machine Polisher or Mop" = Electric polishing machine, try to buy one with multi speed options

    "Mop Head" = Foam Head for your polishing machine

    "Gun Finish" = The finished paintwork after it come out the gun before any flatting

    "Rubbing Paper" = Sand Paper, normally known as "wet n dry"

    "Contaminates" = Silicones, Waxes, grease, Oil, Sweat etc...

    "Orange Peel" = A texture similar to that of an orange skin

    "DA" = Dual Action Orbital Sander, Air driven or electric

    "Film Disc" = Type of fine DA rubbing paper which has a rubber texture as opposed to a gritty texture of traditional rubbing paper

    "Interface Pad" = A soft foam pad which is sandwiched between the DA and Film Disc

    "Compound" = a smooth paste, not to dissimilar to toothpaste in texture, the industry std in Europe is Farecla G3

    "Swirl Lines" = Lines left in the paint after mopping

    "Glaze" = Hand polish (not wax)

    Wet Flatting

    You will need to wet or dry flat after you have painted the panel(s), the goal is to remove any orange peel, dirt, flies etc from the surface of the paint

    With modern 2k paints, your wet flatting should be done the following day after painting, grades from 1000 - 2000 grit can be used. The better the "gun finish" the less wet flatting will be required, also the better the gun finish the finer rubbing paper can be used.

    When wet flatting use a bucket of warm soapy water, the best soap to use is washing up liquid as it is a detergent, DO NOT use waxes or silicone based soaps, because if you have other paintwork to do, or have to repaint a panel, the last thing you want is contaminates on the panel or in the air.

    When wet flatting it is difficult to see where you have been, due to the wetness of the panel which remains shiny until it dries. To help use a cellulose/decorators sponge and a rubber squeegy, this will help you dry sections of the panel as you go so you can see if the peel or debris has been flatted out

    As you flat the surface you will be removing dirt particles (zingers) from the paint surface. these bits of dirt sit between the paper and the paint, you need to reconise these otherwise they will put deep scratches in your paint. When loosened they make a zinging sound, wash the panel down with your sponge and clean the rubbing paper in the bucket, do this frequently.

    Be very careful of edges and contours when wet flatting as it is very easy to rub though, meaning that panel will have to be repainted.

    Flatting out runs is more difficult than you may think, most flatting is done with a rubber block, this can "rock" on top of the run meaning that the edges of the block can dig in the paint either side and rub through! Normally I will use my finger instead of a block to begin with just so I can rub the majority of the run down, I then go over it will the block to blend it in. You can also remove the top of runs carefully with a razor blade if they are that bad (see Mittys tip on this in post 10)! Its worth also pointing out that runs after 24hrs will not be fully dry and will tear when flatting.


    Dry Flatting

    Dry flatting serves the same purpose as wet flatting, its good for large areas of flat (ish) surfaces. It is less labour intensive and you can cover more area quickly.

    It also has the benefit in that you can see where you have been on the panel

    Normally used with "film" or "aluminium oxide" discs

    When used in your DA, you will need an interface pad, this is a soft pad which will curve with the panels surface

    Polishing

    Now that you have flatted out all the imperfections in the surface of your paint, you are now ready to polish out all those fine scratches you have just put into the paint surface.

    When polishing, try to concentrate on one panel at a time and do not do it in direct sunlight.

    Also do not allow the mop head to get hot as you can run the risk of burning through the paint.

    Ok, at this stage you will need a firm mop head (as opposed to a soft one). Wet it through, this will stop it heating up and reduce swirl lines. squirt your chosen compound onto the mop head, now smear this around the panel BEFORE you switch the machine on (unless you like making a mess).

    Now start polishing, try to keep the head of the mop flat to the surface, maybe lifting one side a touch. Be consistent and criss cross what you have done, keeping the mop speed fairly low. I wont go to much into detail here as there are plenty of videos on youtube.

    Once your happy with your mopping and the panel is completely shiney again, you will now want to glaze the panel. Glazing is two fold; 1. I removes swirl lines left but the mop as well as any "milkyness" in the paint, and 2. It leaves the paint with a deep wet look lusture.

    DO NOT wax new paintwork, the paint will continue to cure over several weeks the fillers in wax seal the paint so will not allow the paint to do this. Glaze does not contain fillers so allows the paint to breathe.

    Glazing

    As mentioned above, glaze is used to finish the paint of to a showroom std.

    This process will remove, swirl marks, holograms and any milkyness in the paint.

    Again I wont go into much detail as there are better places and more knowledgeable people than me on the subject, so for now we will just concentrate on finishing off new paint

    As will all chemicals it is not advisable to squirt them directly onto the paintwork (particually new paint as remember its not fully cured yet)

    Use an applicator sponge to apply your glaze, squirt onto the sponge and then work it into the bodywork quite firmly in a circular motion, dont worry about glaze getting onto rubbers etc as it does not stain like waxes (infact its very good for polishing rubbers to get them back to that satin factory finish).

    Polish the glaze of the paint pretty much straight away (temperature & practice will dictate this). You can do this by hand, again in a circular motion (we have all see Karate Kid, right? )

    Glaze can also be applied with the machine polisher, either using a soft foam sponge like the "Farecla G-Mop polishing foam" (if glazing a vehicle with fully cured paint you will want the "Advanced G-mop White Waffle Pad"

    For years I have been using 3M Imperial Glaze, although it looks like watered down t-cut without the smell of ammonia, it is a completely different product. This stuff is hard graft but is very rewarding, never use this on a warm panel as it dries like concrete, Only ever do a single panel at a time and polish it off immediately. This stuff is particually brilliant on dark colours.

    The new kid on the block is Meguires #7, this is much easier to work with compared to the 3M but im not sure its as good (jury is still out on that one).

    Also Farecla do their own glaze product which I have never used personally, but their products a generally the industry std. They do specific glaze for dark and light colours

    Recomended Materials & Sundaries

    Tip: Dont cut corners when seeking out materials for you paintwork, buy quality products every time

    Compound = Farecla G3 & Upol 333 (see Rich-T's comments post 5)

    Glaze = Meguires #7 or 3M Imperial

    Mop Head = Farecla G-Mop

    Washing up liquid = Fairy, because its nice to your hands

    Cloths = Microfibre, these are much better than the old mutton cloth, plus they can be chucked in the washing machine and used over again

    Rubbing Paper = Most leading brands are good; 3M, Mirka, Indasa etc. Just buy it from your local car paint suppliers and you'll be good to go. Just steer clear of cheap unbranded paper because it can and will ruin your paintwork.

    Rubber rubbing blocks - Various

    Links

    Farecla

    Meguires
    Last edited by Al; 26-09-2014 at 06:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Ok, thread is now open, over to you lot for input / questions

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    25
    Thanks for setting this thread (and the painting/bodywork threads) up! It gives me (as a total newbie to car maintenance/customisation) a much better picture of what's involved. Much appreciated!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    15,993
    Don't bother with cheap ass sandpaper from the likes of Toolstation, it's cheap for a reason and clogs quickly. The job takes twice as long and you use twice as much paper, which means it's not cheap anymore!
    Alan says: Selling the $hit in the garage pays for new toys

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    13,793
    Just a couple of things to add for the time being, Ive recently started using Upol 333 instead of G3, it doesnt seem to clog the buffer head up as much and more importantly is cheaper, as far as finish goes, I cant really tell a difference.

    Also, regarding runs, if you notice one while you're painting, you can 'tape' them out, that is very gently lay a piece of masking tape on top of it while it's still wet, without applying any pressure, then peel it straight off, it should lift the run off the paint. You will still need to flat it as mentioned above but it makes it a damn site easier.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_T View Post
    Just a couple of things to add for the time being, Ive recently started using Upol 333 instead of G3, it doesnt seem to clog the buffer head up as much and more importantly is cheaper, as far as finish goes, I cant really tell a difference.

    Also, regarding runs, if you notice one while you're painting, you can 'tape' them out, that is very gently lay a piece of masking tape on top of it while it's still wet, without applying any pressure, then peel it straight off, it should lift the run off the paint. You will still need to flat it as mentioned above but it makes it a damn site easier.
    Cheers Rich will add your input shortly, will put the runs bit in the actual painting wiki as its something that wound need to be done whilst the paint is still wet it a good point though, I have run my thumb through runs before to remove them, its surprising how forgiving paint is and how well it flows back into itself

    And I purchased a 1ltr bottle of G3 from my paint suppliers last week and they stung me for £28 its actually cheaper to buy it on ebay even with the cost of postage
    Last edited by Al; 26-09-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DubMonkey View Post
    Don't bother with cheap ass sandpaper from the likes of Toolstation, it's cheap for a reason and clogs quickly. The job takes twice as long and you use twice as much paper, which means it's not cheap anymore!
    Ahhhh...... Cheap ass monkey

    why you always bring me junk

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmodium View Post
    Thanks for setting this thread (and the painting/bodywork threads) up! It gives me (as a total newbie to car maintenance/customisation) a much better picture of what's involved. Much appreciated!
    You welcome, if you have any specific questions ask away, thats the whole idea behind these wikis

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    17,895
    Glazing???

    Took your advice and paid for Megiars #7 on your say so, but what about the process? machine or by hand? what sort of mop/sponge/cloth?


    And 'rubbing' - must be a regional thing I've never heard that said before, and as for 'rubbing paper'- it's called wet'n'dry or sandpaper round these parts.

    You have paper for rubbing you call rubbing paper,do you have a cloth you use for touching in small areas, and what's that cloth known as?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    woodhall spa
    Posts
    3,861
    When using a razor blade to remove runs it's sometimes worth putting masking tape either side of the run, then your only taking the top off the run and not risking digging the blade in and damaging the rest of the paint.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    17,895
    Quote Originally Posted by mitty85 View Post
    When using a razor blade to remove runs it's sometimes worth putting masking tape either side of the run, then your only taking the top off the run and not risking digging the blade in and damaging the rest of the paint.
    Is that when you use the blade perpendicular to surface or nearly parallel to surface?

    Anyone use a nib file? Any good?

    Anyone use the skim of filler technique to remove runs?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    woodhall spa
    Posts
    3,861
    perpendicular

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by regcheeseman View Post
    Glazing???

    Took your advice and paid for Megiars #7 on your say so, but what about the process? machine or by hand? what sort of mop/sponge/cloth?


    And 'rubbing' - must be a regional thing I've never heard that said before, and as for 'rubbing paper'- it's called wet'n'dry or sandpaper round these parts.

    You have paper for rubbing you call rubbing paper,do you have a cloth you use for touching in small areas, and what's that cloth known as?
    I have updated the glazing part a bit Reg, I prefer to glaze by hand if I can, swirl lines & holograms are caused by heat, so using a machine just adds more heat IMO

    Dont get the question on touching in small areas with a cloth???

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mitty85 View Post
    When using a razor blade to remove runs it's sometimes worth putting masking tape either side of the run, then your only taking the top off the run and not risking digging the blade in and damaging the rest of the paint.
    Thanks Mitty, info updated

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    17,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Al View Post
    Dont get the question on touching in small areas with a cloth???

    I believe it's known as touching cloth



    Cheers for the extra glazing info Al, I've a couple of sags where I overlapped on panels, then I'm going to start on the glaze, no waffle foam - have a meguiars applicator foam though, so it'll be a lengthy and hopefully satisfying hand job in the garage for me this weekend.
    Last edited by regcheeseman; 26-09-2014 at 01:48 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by regcheeseman View Post
    so it'll be a lengthy and hopefully satisfying hand job in the garage for me this weekend.
    So thats what you do in there! No wonder the Golf took so bloody long to do

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •