vr6 in mk1 cab

[slowmgb]

Hello

Was hoping you may offer some advise. I am going to put a vr6 in my mk1 cab, finally! Have seen the vr6 caddy project progressing. Very impressive!

The question I have is can I fit the vr6 without use of mk3 subframe, wishbones and hubs? As I would like to keep the track the same and hopefully ease the process (as much as possible :))!

On the brakes side of things do I have to fit the mk3 servo, master cylinder and pedals. They look like they fit ok in the caddy! Nothing a large hammer and stress relief can't sort out!

Thanks for any help. Am looking forward to seeing the caddy progress further! You have some balls to do that to your car! thought I would have a go, but fit carbs or throttle bodies![:p]

[P4ulo]

As with anything it all depends on your skills and the amount of money you have.
Dedicated VR6 brackets made to fit them into a MK1 golf are available, they've already been used (with mods) by VR6 caddy, (and countless other mk1 gti owners I guess)
Therefore you could keep the original suspension set-up etc.
Bear in mind, you need massive brakes etc to cope with this monster, thats why most people whack the mk3 servo and brakes in.
Also, Are you going to use the mk3 dash as well? Even more work.
Good luck mate, have a shed load of "contingency fund" standing by and you can't go wrong.
Also, consider getting quotes from a couple of golf specialists, they could save you a whole load of head scratching, and they've done it before!!!!

There's my two penneth, cheers!!!

[alistair]

i am just about to undertake wot you are talking about, admin has gorn the full on committed way!! (good for him) my balls arnt that big so im going to be butchering a mk 3 subframe i hav and just fit wot i need to hold the vr6 lump in. and power steering, leaving the track and susspension unchanged, going to start within the next two weeks tops and i will have camera on every cut because seein work in progress like admin has done is so helpfull so then there will be two ways to do it on the site :)

[The Caddy Man]

Good on ya.
Lookin forward to seeing how its done and you never know it may even motivate me to fit a VR in my cad

[tommy-turtle]

VR6 is the only motor conversion I think people should do to their car if they want a fast car. 1.8t and 16v and g60 ar nothing in my book compaired to a VR6 conversion. Its not that I dont have respect for those guys, But how many 16v can you see in a caddy or a rabbit/golf. Maybe I am biased cause as a kid I worked at a machine shop and saw so many of those 16v come in over the counter and need head work due to some busted t belt on them things. I just think if you are going to make a hot rod, put some punch in the thing that can take the abuse.

[slowmgb]

Had a look at the previous postings and found the place in germany that sells the vr6 into mk1 engine and gerbox mounts. Is there anyone in the uk that produces a similar sort of kit?

Will fit the mk3 servo and pedal box to keep the brakes under control but am not plannning to fit up the dash. Would like to keep the interior standard to keep people guessing what is going on!

Any ideas on front suspension to fit up? I understand that stiffer springs and more capable shocks are needed but has anyone got any ideas about which brands are best before I buy the wrong thing! Ah yes and by the way if I could keep the same rideheight as now it would be good! Its lowered 80mm!

[alistair]

i am going to wait till the engine is in then measure how low its sitting and guess at how much harder i want it, then im taking the spring to a company called faulkner springs thay in same village as me and hav some wicked spring rate measuring kit, and will bable to take the guess work out of it and manufature wot i need , i will let you know wot i use,and thay could supply you, www.dfaulknersprings.com wots the contact details of the company you have found that dose the vr to mk 1 mounts??? id like to try to get some. there is know one in uk i hav tryed a hundred numbers,!!

[slowmgb]

VR6caddy talked about them in a previous posting. They are http://www.detlev-schubert.de and you can find a picture of the engine in a mk1 engine bay at http://www.detlev-schubert.de/-sites-golf1-motor-vr6.html and a picture of the mounts and their price at http://www.detlev-schubert.de/sites-golf1-motor-vr6-selbsteinb.html

Hope this helps

[alistair]

thank you slowmgb

have my friend doing some translations for me now:D

[slowmgb]

No problem. Just let me know how you get on as I will order some if your mounts are any good.(subject to you buying them of course!):) A proper translation of the site on this thread would be rather nice if you get the chance as the translation programs are only so good!:D I try not to take the mick![:I]

[alistair]

i will post the transleted pages tomorrow mind you thay kinda still read double dutch!!!!![:o)]

[B1G VR]

Can you translate for me i still cant work it out:DTheir instructions are worse:D

[Al]

Ask "VR6 Caddy" whether or not he would buy/use the detlev kit again!

Knowing what we know now I would say [u]NO WAY</u> Which ever way you go, you have got to be able to and have access to welding equipement.

There are 3 basic ways in which to fit the VR6

1. "Detlev Kit"...Expensive, and lots of welding still needed....(Choose this route if you are pushed for time but have the money! with this kit (I use the word kit VERY loosely) you still need to weld in 2 of the 5 mounts[V] which kinda defeats the object/expence in the first place

2. Fit the whole subframe[8)] Which is a lot of work
[b](I went this route for many reasons which I wont go into now;)) All I will say in reply to the above post, is that with std MK2/3 TCA'a the track will be simular to the MK1/Caddy

3. Purchase ANY Golf MK3 / VR6 Rado / Late SEAT Ibiza, front and rear subframes and "cut and shut" them in[:0] (The cheapest & most straight forward route IMO) This way you only have the 3 OEM mounts[^] 2 rear, which you weld the cups from the crossmember in, and 1 front which is easy to weld and fabricate as per link in my signature:)

BTW. Welcome to the forum guys[^]

[alistair]

kev if you want any thing translate just email it to me i will gladley get it done :)quote:Originally posted by VR6 Caddy

Can you translate for me i still cant work it out:DTheir instructions are worse:D

[alistair]

now you got me thinking of changing my fittin plans i agree with you on that kit seems there isnt really enf there to do the job, engine is coming out next week so then will b comitment time think it will be swayed by the power steerin rack to be honest and weather it will mount where the original one is. have you ever driven or been in a vr6'd caddy diying to know wot its going to go like!![}:)]

[alistair]

here you go like i say its still a little double dutch[:I]http://muchos.co.uk/members/alistair/Scan1.JPGhttp://muchos.co.uk/members/alistair/Scan10001.JPGhttp://muchos.co.uk/members/alistair/Scan10002.JPGhttp://muchos.co.uk/members/alistair/Scan10003.JPG
quote:Originally posted by slowmgb

No problem. Just let me know how you get on as I will order some if your mounts are any good.(subject to you buying them of course!):) A proper translation of the site on this thread would be rather nice if you get the chance as the translation programs are only so good!:D I try not to take the mick![:I]

[alistair]

my god it makes less sence there than infront of me!!!

[Al]

I looked at fitting the PAS rack in its original postion (with mods) and its a NO NO, due to the lenth of the steering shaft and the route of the fluid pipes

quote:have you ever driven or been in a vr6'd caddy diying to know wot its going to go like!! OH YES[}:)][}:)]

A bit of food for thought for you: One "good" thing about the detlev kit it that it positions the engine in its correct position in the bay! This may sway it for some people!

To over come this problem..... ALL Golf VR6 subframes front and rear are the same, if you can blag a knackered 4 cyl MK3 lump with the 020 box, mounts and subframes....Fit the MK1 mounts to the MK3 block behind the cambelt and to the gearbox, then fit it to the caddys engine bay so that its mounted on both chassis legs......Now fit the MK3 mounts,,, 2 rear & 1 front to the block (thats if they were removed)... This will now tell you exactly where the VR6 mounts need to be welded[^][^][^];););)

[slowmgb]

Sounds so simple!!!!!! (Or not)

The translation is similar to the one I got but I played around on some sites and it just about made sense! Interesting that you can locate the enigne and box the other way. looks like I may spend my 450 euro that would have been on the kit on other bits and bobs. The kit did look a bit basic!!!

One more question. With the engine in place do I have to use a mk3 rack or can I modify the existing one? (yes I know the steering will be very heavy due to the change in weight) Just wondering about clearance or is it trial and error? Hopefully not too much of the latter!

Thanks

[alistair]

how do i know if its got 020 gear box?? i hav a very good thing going with the local breakers i sort there bikes out thay look after me so i could get theese parts PROBABLY

[Al]

020 box is the basic rod shift, cable clutch box in most MK3's (& MK2's):)

A PAS rack from a MK2 or 3 will NOT fit unless it is mounted about 4 inches lower than std, but then there are other issues to take into account. The std non power steering rack is fine and doesnt need any mods, and the steering is no heavier than a std MK2 without power believe it or not:)

[slowmgb]

Ok this may sound odd but may save some work. Is there clearance to mount the mk3 servo and master cylinder in the original position on the gearbox side of the bulkhead on the end of the existing rod? Will the connections mate up? As this would mean that the mk3 pedal box may not be needed. Would this braking set-up affect the braking performance?

One last question!!! :) You are saying that a mk2 rack will fit but is this also the case for the original mk1 rack? Probably showing my ignorance here!!! [:I]

Thanks

[slowmgb]

Ah yes last thing was you may need to know for the last post: I'm not planning to run ABS. Will just drive carefully!

[alistair]

you could probably do as you say with the break servo but the vr gear box has hydrolic clutch and that may take more messing around the mk 3 pedal box is an easer route in the long run

[slowmgb]

Whoops got a bit carried away there and forgot that!!! So use to cables!

[slowmgb]

and rods!

[Al]

The MK3 Pedal box is no good to any of you UNLESS you are planning to use the MK3 Dash & crossmember. You would be better off modifying the std pedal as we did on "VR6 Caddy's" conversion. Or you can get a conversion kit from a VW or SEAT that converts the VR 02A to cable.

[slowmgb]

Hello VR6 caddy if your listening/reading

Do you have any pictures of the conversion you carried out on the mk1 standard pedal set-up to adapt it for use with the vr6 02A gerbox set-up please? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Will look into the vr 02A to cable mechanism conversion kit mensioned but would like to explore all avenues if possible.

Thanks

[slowmgb]

Thanks for all your help everyone. Have found the info I needed on the gerbox section of the site. Ah well nothing for it now but to build!!!! Will let you know how it progresses or even when its finished. Hopefully have it done by gti international (2005?)!!!

[T11OM F]

How did it go in the end, 5 years on! LOL